Discussion:
Another "several small issues" post
Eli Crumrine
2007-01-04 02:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Hello all!

I am finding jurabib to be extremely useful: no other package seems to
be able to do chicago/turabian footnote citations as well!.

I am, however, having a couple small issues getting it working how I
would like. I have the following in my preamble:

---

\documentclass[12pt,letterpaper]{article}
...
\usepackage[oxford]{jurabib}
\jurabibsetup{
citefull=first,
titleformat=italic,
titleformat=commasep,
commabeforerest,
authorformat=reducedifibidem,
pages=format,
ibidem=nostrict,
bibformat=ibidem,
}

\bibliographystyle{jox}
\biburlfont{same}

\AddTo\bibsenglish{%
\renewcommand*{\jbbtasep}{ and }
\renewcommand*{\jbbfsasep}{, }
\renewcommand*{\jbbstasep}{, and }
\renewcommand*{\artnumberformat}{, }
\renewcommand*{\editionname}{ed.}
\renewcommand*{\bibaldelim}{(}
\renewcommand*{\bibardelim}{)}
\renewcommand*{\bibapifont}[1]{``#1,’’}
\renewcommand*{\jbapifont}[1]{``#1,’’}
\DeclareRobustCommand{\jbatsep}{}
\renewcommand*{\jbatsep}{} }

\addto\jbonlyforbib{%
\renewcommand*{\bibansep}{. }
\renewcommand*{\bibaesep}{. }
\renewcommand*{\bibatsep}{.}
\renewcommand*{\bibbtasep}{ and }
\renewcommand*{\bibbfsasep}{, }
\renewcommand*{\bibbstasep}{, and }
\renewcommand*{\bibbtesep}{ and }
\renewcommand*{\bibbfsesep}{, }
\renewcommand*{\bibbstesep}{, and }
\renewcommand*{\bibaldelim}{\unskip , }
\renewcommand*{\bibardelim}{:}
\renewcommand*{\bibapifont}[1]{``#1.''}
}

\begin{document}

---

Now, with that in place, a bibtex entry of:

---

@Article{bown,
Author = {Bown, Ralph},
Title = {The Transistor as an Industrial Research Episode},
Journal = {The Scientific Monthly},
Volume = {vol. 80},
Number = {no. 1},
Pages = {40--46},
copyright = {Copyright 1955 American Association for the
Advancement of Science},
issn = {0096-3771},
month = {Jan},
publisher = {American Association for the Advancement of
Science},
year = 1955
}

---

with the following in the document:

...it is\ldots a basically new thing in the world.\footcite[40]{bown}

produces a footnote [see attached footnote.png]

and bibliography entry [see attached bibliography.png]

Now, this is very good, but there are just a couple small problems.
First, I can't seem to get rid of the comma after the title. I tried
to disable this with various (trial and error, I'm new to this)
\jbatsep{} and \bibatsep{} commands, but nothing worked. I want this
gone in both the footnote and bibliography.

Second, the \renewcommand*{\bibapifont}[1]{``#1.''} line worked well
for the bibliography, but I want the footnote to be formatted
{``#1,''} with a comma inside the quotations. I tried to put this
command in \addto\bibsenglish but the one in \addto\jbonlyforbib seems
to apply to the footnote as well.

Thirdly, I have a comma before the page numbers in the footnotes (from
commabeforerest?) which is correct, (these pages are the ones in the
\footcite[#]{key} command), but in the bibliography (where the page
numbers come from the bibtex entry), I do not want that comma, just the
already-present colon.

Two more very minor things: is there any way to not have the
bibliography entry end with a colon for @article bibtex entries with no
"page =" field? Right now they end with a colon, which looks silly
when there is nothing following it. Also, can I not add an additional
period after an author whose name ends with one already? ATM, someone
whose name ends Jr. or with a middle initial [A-Z]. will be put into
the biography as [A-Z].. \endofsentence

Many thanks for the great package; in case anyone is curious, I am
using it to follow the (modified?) turabian format
[http://www.hchs.hunter.cuny.edu/index.php/stylesheets/380/] and
[http://www.hchs.hunter.cuny.edu/index.php/stylesheets/415/]
--
Eli C.
2007:01:03
--
Please remember -- this is an international english speaking mailing list!

If you have a problem, please provide a complete minimal example document (with a small bibliography database), which runs out of he box without any superfluous packages loaded, otherwise we could not help.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jurabib/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jurabib/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Eli Crumrine
2007-01-12 03:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eli Crumrine
I am finding jurabib to be extremely useful: no other package seems to
be able to do chicago/turabian footnote citations as well!.
I am, however, having a couple small issues getting it working how I
would like.
Replying to my own post, I got basically all of these issues worked out
by simply using the chicago format instead of oxford. The problems
with two periods after a middle initial remain, though, as well as a
couple other small ones I can't be bothered to change.
--
Eli C.
2007:01:11
--
Please remember -- this is an international english speaking mailing list!

If you have a problem, please provide a complete minimal example document (with a small bibliography database), which runs out of he box without any superfluous packages loaded, otherwise we could not help.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jurabib/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jurabib/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
JC
2007-01-12 09:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eli Crumrine
Replying to my own post, I got basically all of these issues worked out
by simply using the chicago format instead of oxford. The problems
with two periods after a middle initial remain, though, as well as a
couple other small ones I can't be bothered to change.
Hi Eli,
I have the same trouble with multiple periods after a middle initial.
There's a process in the jurabib files that removes a period after
the title of a book if it already ends in punctuation; while I was
unsuccessful in my amateur efforts to use that same function for
middle initials, others might have more luck. I'm currently planning
on going through my Bibtex file and deleting those periods (as I see
them only in my bibliography where I wouldn't need them).

What are some of the other small issues you still have? Others on
this list might be able to help---or even benefit alongside you. Best
wishes,
James
--
Please remember -- this is an international english speaking mailing list!

If you have a problem, please provide a complete minimal example document (with a small bibliography database), which runs out of he box without any superfluous packages loaded, otherwise we could not help.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jurabib/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jurabib/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Eli Crumrine
2007-01-13 03:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by JC
Post by Eli Crumrine
Replying to my own post, I got basically all of these issues worked
out by simply using the chicago format instead of oxford. The
problems with two periods after a middle initial remain, though, as
well as a couple other small ones I can't be bothered to change.
Hi Eli,
I have the same trouble with multiple periods after a middle initial.
There's a process in the jurabib files that removes a period after
the title of a book if it already ends in punctuation; while I was
unsuccessful in my amateur efforts to use that same function for
middle initials, others might have more luck. I'm currently planning
on going through my Bibtex file and deleting those periods (as I see
them only in my bibliography where I wouldn't need them).
Although I know little tex/latex as well, I will take a look at this.
I noticed it did that for titles and was surprised similar punctuation
detection was not done for authors.
Post by JC
What are some of the other small issues you still have? Others on
this list might be able to help---or even benefit alongside you. Best
wishes,
James
Let's see; I will go through and do an exhaustive list (this is all
using chicago style):
-On quoted titles (i.e., journal articles) the comma (in footnote) or
period (in the bib) are outside the quotation marks. I know this is
the European standard and it makes more syntactical sense, but
Americans usually put punctuation inside quotation marks.
-For @incollection items, the capitalization of "in" and "Ed." (for the
editors, listed after the titles), is messed up. In footnotes, where a
comma follows the title, "Ed." is capitalized, something which should
only be done after a period (i.e. in the bibliography, where it is
correct).
Additionally, in the bibliography, I will get something like:

Cunningham, Michael. "Unionist and Nationalist Thinking in the 1990s".
in /i/The Northern Ireland Question: Nationalism, Unionism and
Partition/i/.

The "in" is lowercase; it should be capitalized after a period. This
ends up correct in footnotes, where commas are used instead.
-For works which are translated, I have an author, editor, and
editortype={trans.} field, as per the jurbib docs, in the .bib
database. When this is cited, the entry I get is:

[Author(s)]; [Editor(s)] (trans.)

I would prefer:

Author[.|,] Title[.|,] [T|t]rans. Editor

and a similar format for regular editors, with "[E|e]d." instead of
trans.

That's all I can think of now, let me know if I should just send images
instead of long-winded explanations :P.
--
Eli C.
2007:01:12
--
Please remember -- this is an international english speaking mailing list!

If you have a problem, please provide a complete minimal example document (with a small bibliography database), which runs out of he box without any superfluous packages loaded, otherwise we could not help.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jurabib/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jurabib/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com
mailto:jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
jurabib-***@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Loading...